I have discovered something recently. I have discovered that no matter how much I restrain myself in expressing my opinions about religion or Mormonism people will still take offense.
No matter how fair I try to be to people, no matter how many times I make sure I differentiate between religious beliefs and religious people, no matter how often I use soft words and polite ways to make my point, it just doesn't matter at all.
People will still take offense.
I have been accused of having no morals, leaving religion because I wanted to sin, and lacking integrity. I have been accused of being stupid, ignorant, lacking reason, and playing the victim.
And that's just within the past week.
It just doesn't matter how nice I try to be, I am seen as an asshole and a bigot. So today I am going to be an asshole, I'll let you decide about the bigot part.
I am about to offend you. If you don't like being offended you should stop reading and close this page now. Seriously.
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Are you sure you want to read this?
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Last chance
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Fuck religion.
Fuck all religion, and fuck the ignorant, brainwashed people who believe in it.
Fuck Mormonism.
Fuck Mormonism for making me think I was committing a sin barely less than murder for masturbating.
Fuck Mormonism for using your political weight to take away rights from American citizens.
And Fuck the Mormons who support such bigotry.
Fuck Mormonism for not allowing me to attend my own father's funeral.
Fuck Mormonism for teaching women that their only real purpose is to raise kids.
Fuck Mormonism for excommunicating anyone who actually asks questions.
Fuck Catholicism.
Fuck Catholicism for teaching people that condoms are more evil than AIDS.
Fuck Catholicism for enabling child rapists.
Fuck Catholicism for persecuting people like Galileo, people who actually cared about truth.
Fuck Islam.
Fuck Islam for using your violent religion to justify murder, rape, mutilation and bigotry.
Fuck Islam for attacking my beloved nation blatantly and without provocation.
Fuck Islam for demanding free speech rights while calling for death to others who demand the same.
Fuck Islam for their unforgivable treatment of women, including genital mutilation of children
Fuck Christianity for undermining science education in this nation, and endangering our future.
Fuck Christians who claim that we are a "Christian Nation" Which is true only in the same sense that we are a white nation. (I bet that one gets taken out of context).
Fuck Christians for putting the words "under god" in the pledge of allegiance.
(Incidentally, Fuck the pledge of allegiance. We don't need loyalty pledges to be patriotic.)
Fuck Christians who claim persecution when atheists put up billboards.
Fuck Christians who tell me there are no atheists in foxholes. Yes there fucking are! I was one!
Fuck Christians who think religious belief and patriotism are one and the same.
Fuck Christians who scare little children into being "good" by stories of hell.
Fuck Christians who tell me I am going to hell. If hell is real, (spoiler alert. It isn't), I hope you go there and spend eternity burning for your ignorant, backwards views.
And Fuck whatever religion you believe in that I haven't mentioned yet. And whatever stupid, irrational, ignorant, backwards, unscientific, unsupported, and just downright silly beliefs you hold.
FUCK!
Fuck me for not thinking of more things to be angry about.
And Fuck me for using so much fucking hyperbole!
An open discussion of mormonism, religion and atheism, science, and philosophy.
Monday, May 16, 2011
Sunday, May 15, 2011
Do I have to care if you are offended?
If I posted on Facebook saying how much I dislike the writings of your favorite author, would you get offended? Would you tell me that I should just shut up and leave it alone? If I posted an argument against your chosen political party would you demand that I have no right to post such mean things? Would you demand that I just shut up because you really like those things and my arguments against those things are offensive? I don't think you would.
But yet invariably nearly every time I post anything at all even vaguely against religion or the ideas of religion I am constantly told to be quiet. I am told things like,
"Why can't you just leave it alone?"
"Why do you have to be so mean?"
"You are being offensive!"
And various other things to try to shut me up.
In every other context other than religion, discussion and argument are an expected part of our society, but as soon as religion comes up I am supposed to shut my mouth.
I am not naive as to the reason for this double-standard. The more seriously people take their beliefs, the more their beliefs matter to them, the more they are going to feel offended when those beliefs are challenged. It is a natural human response.
But I think it is also an immature human response, and one that we should fight against.
I am sure I fall into this trap myself, but I try to be aware of it and try to not allow myself the luxury of thinking I am always right. If I am being stubborn and blind to the evidence I want to know. I want my beliefs to conform to reality. This is, of course, easier said than done.
If we get immediately offended whenever something we think is challenged than how can we ever know if we are wrong? There really is no other good way to determine the truth of something than to submit it to the full light of questioning, doubting, and scrutiny.
On the other hand, there is something to be said for basic human politeness and compassion. Would I ever go into a church and challenge anyone's beliefs in person? No. I wouldn't even think to do such a thing. In fact if you know me in person, try to remember a time where I challenged your religious beliefs in person. I bet you can't. There have been a few times where I have discussed religious ideas with some of you, but I always felt like the conversation was welcome by both parties. If I was wrong about that than I apologize.
Almost all my anti-religious activities are done online. If something I said offends you than I cannot help that. I feel I have a right, and an obligation, to say what I need to say. The issues I talk about are important to me. I think these issues are important for the future of humanity.
If the things I say on the internet offend you than you are welcome to not read them.
I welcome debate, discussion and argument. I welcome challenges against my positions. How else could I know if I am wrong if nobody challenges my beliefs?
However if your only contribution is to try to shut me up then please just ignore me instead.
Do I care if you are offended?
Not one bit.
But yet invariably nearly every time I post anything at all even vaguely against religion or the ideas of religion I am constantly told to be quiet. I am told things like,
"Why can't you just leave it alone?"
"Why do you have to be so mean?"
"You are being offensive!"
And various other things to try to shut me up.
In every other context other than religion, discussion and argument are an expected part of our society, but as soon as religion comes up I am supposed to shut my mouth.
I am not naive as to the reason for this double-standard. The more seriously people take their beliefs, the more their beliefs matter to them, the more they are going to feel offended when those beliefs are challenged. It is a natural human response.
But I think it is also an immature human response, and one that we should fight against.
I am sure I fall into this trap myself, but I try to be aware of it and try to not allow myself the luxury of thinking I am always right. If I am being stubborn and blind to the evidence I want to know. I want my beliefs to conform to reality. This is, of course, easier said than done.
If we get immediately offended whenever something we think is challenged than how can we ever know if we are wrong? There really is no other good way to determine the truth of something than to submit it to the full light of questioning, doubting, and scrutiny.
On the other hand, there is something to be said for basic human politeness and compassion. Would I ever go into a church and challenge anyone's beliefs in person? No. I wouldn't even think to do such a thing. In fact if you know me in person, try to remember a time where I challenged your religious beliefs in person. I bet you can't. There have been a few times where I have discussed religious ideas with some of you, but I always felt like the conversation was welcome by both parties. If I was wrong about that than I apologize.
Almost all my anti-religious activities are done online. If something I said offends you than I cannot help that. I feel I have a right, and an obligation, to say what I need to say. The issues I talk about are important to me. I think these issues are important for the future of humanity.
If the things I say on the internet offend you than you are welcome to not read them.
I welcome debate, discussion and argument. I welcome challenges against my positions. How else could I know if I am wrong if nobody challenges my beliefs?
However if your only contribution is to try to shut me up then please just ignore me instead.
Do I care if you are offended?
Not one bit.
Monday, May 9, 2011
How the church could get me back
John Larson of Mormon Expression recently proposed the idea of starting a new community for people like me, people who have left the LDS church or aren't true believers anymore. You can read his ideas in detail here.
John Dehlin of Mormon Stories recently gave a talk about the future of uncorrelated Mormons. You can check that out here.
I love the idea of building communities like that. I fully support both John's in what they are trying to do. But it did get me thinking. In my last post I wondered if I should even consider myself Mormon at all. Now I will explain what the church could do to get me back.
First and foremost is this one thing. It is not negotiable at all. If the church cannot fully commit to it than it doesn't matter what else they do. I will never return.
The first thing the church must do is stop involving itself in political activities. No supporting parties, candidates, or political campaigns of any kind.
No urging members how to vote on any issue whatsoever. No donating money to any political group of any kind.
And certainly no Prop 8 type debacles ever again. All the church should ever do politically is urge their members to participate in the political process in whatever way they see fit and leave it at that.
If you are still with me than let's move on. Some of the next few ideas are negotiable, we could tweak some of the details here or there but the general idea should stay the same. So here are the rules.
The first huge change, and the one where I will probably lose most of you if I haven't already, is this. There will be two Sunday School groups, two Relief Society groups, and two Priesthood groups. One of these groups will be considered orthodox and one considered liberal.
If you choose to go to the orthodox group you should stick generally to discussing official LDS teachings and ideas. Essentially what happens now in most wards and branches.
The liberal group would be much more open and free to ask questions and discuss controversial ideas. What group any person goes to each week is up to them, they do no have to commit beforehand and should not be judged either way.
Nobody will ever be told that they must believe any specific thing to be a member.
Sacrament Meeting stays the same with one big difference. Sacrament meeting talks and testimonies should be kept uplifting and humanistic. Talks on love, compassion, family and general human values are encouraged.
Talks about LDS history and our shared heritage and ancestry are also encouraged. Quotes can be from current and former LDS leaders or from great thinkers outside Mormonism. Talks specifically attacking Mormonism are not encouraged. On the other side, Dogmatic talks are also not encouraged.
All of these will be general guidelines that people will be asked to follow. Nobody will ever be pulled from the pulpit or chastised for anything said.
Basically Sacrament meeting should be a chance to come together and celebrate our shared heritage and worship God, or not, according to our own beliefs.
These guidelines should not be interpreted to stop people from saying what they believe. It would be okay, for example, for me to say I am an atheist or for someone else to say they know The Book of Mormon is true. As long as the talks are positive than it's okay.
Because of this, those in the pews should be respectful of opinions that may differ from their own. Discussion afterwards is fine but interruptions during any talk would probably be inappropriate.
Again, these are general guidelines, not strict rules. Everyone should try to give others the benefit of the doubt if they feel the guidelines are being broken.
The same general guidelines that exist for Sacrament Meeting talks would also apply to Stake Conference talks and General Conference talks.
Music in Sacrament Meeting would be essentially the same except for one thing. The rules against certain types of instruments that exist now would be removed. Any instrument can be uplifting. All types of musical expression should be encouraged.
The three hour block stays but is breaks down differently. 1 hour of Sacrament Meeting, 30 minutes of Priesthood/Relief society, 30 minutes of Sunday School, and 1 hour of socializing. How the socialization goes is totally up to the local unit. Creativity is encouraged.
Tithing changes from 10% to pay whatever you think the church is worth to you. Donations will be anonymous and nobody will ever be told what to pay.
There will be only one temple recommend question. Do you feel comfortable going to the temple? In fact we could just get rid of that and make the temple rituals open to anyone. I think there is a lot of beauty in the rituals, and the chance to escape from the chaos of the world is always good.
Callings will be volunteer first and then if they are not filled it would be okay to ask people. But people should never be made to feel guilty if they don't feel they can fill the calling for whatever reason. Callings should never be made up just to give someone something to do. If it doesn't need to be done don't make someone do it. Also, meetings that don't really need to be held will not be held. Family time should always take precedence over church time.
The church will rehire it's custodial staff and stop asking normal members to do that work. It would also give back those jobs to members who lost them.
The business interests of the church can remain, as long as the financial statements are available to anyone who wants to see them.
I think that's about it. Do I think that this idea is realistic? Not at all. I do think something like this is possible, maybe even inevitable. But certainly not in my lifetime. Probably not for at least a few hundred years. But I man can dream can't he?
What do you think? What ideas do you like or hate? If you are a believer now would you still go to this church? If you aren't, would something like this make you come back?
I promised to talk about MorCon in this post. But I think I will wait and do that one next time.
John Dehlin of Mormon Stories recently gave a talk about the future of uncorrelated Mormons. You can check that out here.
I love the idea of building communities like that. I fully support both John's in what they are trying to do. But it did get me thinking. In my last post I wondered if I should even consider myself Mormon at all. Now I will explain what the church could do to get me back.
First and foremost is this one thing. It is not negotiable at all. If the church cannot fully commit to it than it doesn't matter what else they do. I will never return.
The first thing the church must do is stop involving itself in political activities. No supporting parties, candidates, or political campaigns of any kind.
No urging members how to vote on any issue whatsoever. No donating money to any political group of any kind.
And certainly no Prop 8 type debacles ever again. All the church should ever do politically is urge their members to participate in the political process in whatever way they see fit and leave it at that.
If you are still with me than let's move on. Some of the next few ideas are negotiable, we could tweak some of the details here or there but the general idea should stay the same. So here are the rules.
The first huge change, and the one where I will probably lose most of you if I haven't already, is this. There will be two Sunday School groups, two Relief Society groups, and two Priesthood groups. One of these groups will be considered orthodox and one considered liberal.
If you choose to go to the orthodox group you should stick generally to discussing official LDS teachings and ideas. Essentially what happens now in most wards and branches.
The liberal group would be much more open and free to ask questions and discuss controversial ideas. What group any person goes to each week is up to them, they do no have to commit beforehand and should not be judged either way.
Nobody will ever be told that they must believe any specific thing to be a member.
Sacrament Meeting stays the same with one big difference. Sacrament meeting talks and testimonies should be kept uplifting and humanistic. Talks on love, compassion, family and general human values are encouraged.
Talks about LDS history and our shared heritage and ancestry are also encouraged. Quotes can be from current and former LDS leaders or from great thinkers outside Mormonism. Talks specifically attacking Mormonism are not encouraged. On the other side, Dogmatic talks are also not encouraged.
All of these will be general guidelines that people will be asked to follow. Nobody will ever be pulled from the pulpit or chastised for anything said.
Basically Sacrament meeting should be a chance to come together and celebrate our shared heritage and worship God, or not, according to our own beliefs.
These guidelines should not be interpreted to stop people from saying what they believe. It would be okay, for example, for me to say I am an atheist or for someone else to say they know The Book of Mormon is true. As long as the talks are positive than it's okay.
Because of this, those in the pews should be respectful of opinions that may differ from their own. Discussion afterwards is fine but interruptions during any talk would probably be inappropriate.
Again, these are general guidelines, not strict rules. Everyone should try to give others the benefit of the doubt if they feel the guidelines are being broken.
The same general guidelines that exist for Sacrament Meeting talks would also apply to Stake Conference talks and General Conference talks.
Music in Sacrament Meeting would be essentially the same except for one thing. The rules against certain types of instruments that exist now would be removed. Any instrument can be uplifting. All types of musical expression should be encouraged.
The three hour block stays but is breaks down differently. 1 hour of Sacrament Meeting, 30 minutes of Priesthood/Relief society, 30 minutes of Sunday School, and 1 hour of socializing. How the socialization goes is totally up to the local unit. Creativity is encouraged.
Tithing changes from 10% to pay whatever you think the church is worth to you. Donations will be anonymous and nobody will ever be told what to pay.
There will be only one temple recommend question. Do you feel comfortable going to the temple? In fact we could just get rid of that and make the temple rituals open to anyone. I think there is a lot of beauty in the rituals, and the chance to escape from the chaos of the world is always good.
Callings will be volunteer first and then if they are not filled it would be okay to ask people. But people should never be made to feel guilty if they don't feel they can fill the calling for whatever reason. Callings should never be made up just to give someone something to do. If it doesn't need to be done don't make someone do it. Also, meetings that don't really need to be held will not be held. Family time should always take precedence over church time.
The church will rehire it's custodial staff and stop asking normal members to do that work. It would also give back those jobs to members who lost them.
The business interests of the church can remain, as long as the financial statements are available to anyone who wants to see them.
I think that's about it. Do I think that this idea is realistic? Not at all. I do think something like this is possible, maybe even inevitable. But certainly not in my lifetime. Probably not for at least a few hundred years. But I man can dream can't he?
What do you think? What ideas do you like or hate? If you are a believer now would you still go to this church? If you aren't, would something like this make you come back?
I promised to talk about MorCon in this post. But I think I will wait and do that one next time.
Sunday, May 8, 2011
Am I a Mormon?
I want to be a Mormon. I just thought I would say that. I am no longer a member of the LDS church. I no longer even believe in God. But I love the ideas of Mormonism. I love the people. I love how they care so much about families. I love how they take care of each other and band together so well in emergencies. I love their ideas about thrift and self-reliance. I also love how they take care of the people who aren't good at implementing those ideas. I love their mythology, their cosmology, their music, sense of humor, and food, especially funeral potatoes. How can you not love funeral potatoes? I am sure I could think of more. But most of all, as I said before, I love the people. They are my people.
But yet I use the term "they" instead of "we". Despite how much I tried, I just could not ever get myself to believe in any of the truth claims of religion. It wasn't for lack of effort, I tried for 30 years, it just didn't work. And unfortunately Mormonism tends to be a fairly dogmatic community about believing it's truth claims. If you don't believe that, just imagine standing up in Sunday School and asking about other possible theories of Book of Mormon authorship. How well do you think that would go over? I want to stay part of Mormonism but I don't think Mormonism wants me.
There is one other possibility though. Couldn't I just attend and enjoy the social aspect and stay quiet about what I think about the beliefs? I certainly could do that. I know for a fact that many do. But it is a very hard thing to do. It is hard to listen to things you disagree with over and over and not be able to give your point of view. and I don't think I am the type of person that could pull it off.
So I try to stay part of the larger Mormon community by socializing as much as possible with people like me. But as awesome and great as those people are, I still feel like I am missing out on full participation in a community that I love.
Coming in my next post
What the church can do to fix this and get me back, seriously.
Preview....... MorCon. Better than DragonCon?
But yet I use the term "they" instead of "we". Despite how much I tried, I just could not ever get myself to believe in any of the truth claims of religion. It wasn't for lack of effort, I tried for 30 years, it just didn't work. And unfortunately Mormonism tends to be a fairly dogmatic community about believing it's truth claims. If you don't believe that, just imagine standing up in Sunday School and asking about other possible theories of Book of Mormon authorship. How well do you think that would go over? I want to stay part of Mormonism but I don't think Mormonism wants me.
There is one other possibility though. Couldn't I just attend and enjoy the social aspect and stay quiet about what I think about the beliefs? I certainly could do that. I know for a fact that many do. But it is a very hard thing to do. It is hard to listen to things you disagree with over and over and not be able to give your point of view. and I don't think I am the type of person that could pull it off.
So I try to stay part of the larger Mormon community by socializing as much as possible with people like me. But as awesome and great as those people are, I still feel like I am missing out on full participation in a community that I love.
Coming in my next post
What the church can do to fix this and get me back, seriously.
Preview....... MorCon. Better than DragonCon?
Wednesday, May 4, 2011
Cosmic Purpose
One of the most common objections that I find when I tell people that I am an atheist is the idea that without God there would be no purpose for life. Without God, life would be meaningless.
I both completely agree and disagree with this idea. It all depends on how you define meaning and/or purpose.
Is life meaningless? Does life have no purpose? In a sense, yes. Life on this earth has no meaning. If our star went supernova tomorrow (Don't worry, it won't),and every life form on this entire planet was obliterated, it would barely be a noticeable event in the universe. It simply wouldn't matter, it would just be the universe going about it's normal movements. Stars explode every day. I would venture to guess that you don't spend a lot of time caring about any life that could be orbiting those stars.
Scientists expect that the star Betelgeuse, a red giant, is going to go supernova sometime within the next million years. Meaning that it is actually possible that it could happen tomorrow, or that it has already happened. If it did happen and we could somehow know that it had destroyed a civilization similar to ours, would you care? Would you feel any empathy for them? If we saw Betelgeuse explode tomorrow I don't imagine there would be any response other than scientific excitement.
Your life does not really matter, at least not to the universe
But it does matter. It matters to me. Life matters to those that live it.
It may not be of any cosmic or theological significance whether or not I take care of my children. It is true that if I didn't take care of them and they died of neglect that it wouldn't make much difference in the universe, or even maybe the world. But it would matter to me and to them. As a parent it literally hurts me to see my children hurt. I cannot imagine consciously causing them pain. I have caused them pain before inadvertently and didn't enjoy it at all. It made me and my children both worse off.
Life may not matter in any sort of cosmic sense, but since I am here and living it I may as well make it the best life I can. I may as well not hurt myself and the people I love and try to give them the best experience I can. I may as well try to make the world better for the life that is on it. I may as well do the things that I enjoy and the things that make me happy. I may as well be the person that I feel I am and not live a lie.
Let me give an analogy. Suppose your parents take you to an amusement park when you are a child. They tell you that if you are really good, if you don't fight with your siblings, if you don't beg for things you can't have, etc, that they will take you to your favorite restaurant every day for the rest of your life.
So you do your best to do exactly what your parents say. Everything seems to be going well and you are having a great time.
Around lunchtime you overhear your parents talking to each other about the fact that they have no intention of ever paying out the promised reward. They are just manipulating you into being good. (I know, your parents in this scenario are evil, but just go with it.) What do you do now?
You could get angry at your parents and demand to be taken home. You could be mean to your siblings to get back at your parents. You could refuse to enjoy the amusement park anymore. Or, you could just enjoy the fact that you are in a fun place and have a great time the rest of the day and worry about getting angry afterwards.
Even if there is no real reward after this life, even if there is no afterlife and the only thing that happens to us after death is that get buried in the ground and literally turn back into dust, we can still enjoy the life we have here.
We can try to make it a good life for as many of us as possible.
We can love each other, not because we think we will be rewarded for doing so, but because we want to live in a world where people love each other.
We can take care of each other for the same reason.
We can enjoy beauty, art, music, nature, science, and anything else that we enjoy. We do not need an afterlife or a god to have purpose. We should, instead, worry about finding our own purpose for the life we know we have already.
I both completely agree and disagree with this idea. It all depends on how you define meaning and/or purpose.
Is life meaningless? Does life have no purpose? In a sense, yes. Life on this earth has no meaning. If our star went supernova tomorrow (Don't worry, it won't),and every life form on this entire planet was obliterated, it would barely be a noticeable event in the universe. It simply wouldn't matter, it would just be the universe going about it's normal movements. Stars explode every day. I would venture to guess that you don't spend a lot of time caring about any life that could be orbiting those stars.
Scientists expect that the star Betelgeuse, a red giant, is going to go supernova sometime within the next million years. Meaning that it is actually possible that it could happen tomorrow, or that it has already happened. If it did happen and we could somehow know that it had destroyed a civilization similar to ours, would you care? Would you feel any empathy for them? If we saw Betelgeuse explode tomorrow I don't imagine there would be any response other than scientific excitement.
Your life does not really matter, at least not to the universe
But it does matter. It matters to me. Life matters to those that live it.
It may not be of any cosmic or theological significance whether or not I take care of my children. It is true that if I didn't take care of them and they died of neglect that it wouldn't make much difference in the universe, or even maybe the world. But it would matter to me and to them. As a parent it literally hurts me to see my children hurt. I cannot imagine consciously causing them pain. I have caused them pain before inadvertently and didn't enjoy it at all. It made me and my children both worse off.
Life may not matter in any sort of cosmic sense, but since I am here and living it I may as well make it the best life I can. I may as well not hurt myself and the people I love and try to give them the best experience I can. I may as well try to make the world better for the life that is on it. I may as well do the things that I enjoy and the things that make me happy. I may as well be the person that I feel I am and not live a lie.
Let me give an analogy. Suppose your parents take you to an amusement park when you are a child. They tell you that if you are really good, if you don't fight with your siblings, if you don't beg for things you can't have, etc, that they will take you to your favorite restaurant every day for the rest of your life.
So you do your best to do exactly what your parents say. Everything seems to be going well and you are having a great time.
Around lunchtime you overhear your parents talking to each other about the fact that they have no intention of ever paying out the promised reward. They are just manipulating you into being good. (I know, your parents in this scenario are evil, but just go with it.) What do you do now?
You could get angry at your parents and demand to be taken home. You could be mean to your siblings to get back at your parents. You could refuse to enjoy the amusement park anymore. Or, you could just enjoy the fact that you are in a fun place and have a great time the rest of the day and worry about getting angry afterwards.
Even if there is no real reward after this life, even if there is no afterlife and the only thing that happens to us after death is that get buried in the ground and literally turn back into dust, we can still enjoy the life we have here.
We can try to make it a good life for as many of us as possible.
We can love each other, not because we think we will be rewarded for doing so, but because we want to live in a world where people love each other.
We can take care of each other for the same reason.
We can enjoy beauty, art, music, nature, science, and anything else that we enjoy. We do not need an afterlife or a god to have purpose. We should, instead, worry about finding our own purpose for the life we know we have already.
“If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.” - Carl Sagan
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